Cruise Talk: Intended Liners

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»	Cruise Talk » Ocean Liners and Classic Cruise Ships » Intended Liners (Page 1)

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Author

Topic: Intended Liners

Thad
First Class Passenger
Member # 1224

posted 07-02-2003 05:07 PM

Hi all,
I have found some images from Damned by Destiny that have been scanned in. They include two of the Oceanic, one of the Q3, one of the Bretagne, and two of the Vaterland of 1940. Hope you all enjoy.

Thad

Posts: 1967 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged

Onno
First Class Passenger
Member # 3071

posted 07-02-2003 05:29 PM

I have seen most of them before only not the supposed Bretagne That ship sure looks ugly for a liner

(glad it was not to be) it would have diminished the perfect Normandie bow. Actually it looks a lot like a river cruise boot.

Best, onno

Posts: 3583 | From: the Netherlands (Berenbotje ging uit varen...) | Registered: May 2002 | IP: Logged

JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 07-02-2003 05:31 PM

I'm not dure, It looks like something unknown. Thad, can you scan renderings of President Washington from the book?

Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003 | IP: Logged

Westerdam
First Class Passenger
Member # 2093

posted 07-02-2003 05:35 PM

Great Pictures! The Q3 design looks more or less like an overgrown Vistafjord/Caronia. Bretagne would have been a terrible follow up design wise to the Normandie. Just curious-- is there anything on North German Lloyd's intended Viktoria in this book?

Posts: 329 | From: Waukegan, Illinois | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged

JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 07-02-2003 05:39 PM

It does look like an overgrown Caronia, Thad can you scan a picture of America 2 and SS Washington?

Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 07-02-2003 06:51 PM

Hmm... Well they all look rather nice, with the VERY notable exception of BRETAGNE... What an AWFUL design that is!

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

Ðraikar
First Class Passenger
Member # 1153

posted 07-02-2003 07:06 PM

I wish the Vaterland of 1940 came to be, if i remember part of her was built.

I kinda like the BRETAGNE design, why was she not built ?

Posts: 1710 | From: USA, New York | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

Ðraikar
First Class Passenger
Member # 1153

posted 07-02-2003 07:51 PM

Here is my renderings of the Oceanic

[ 07-02-2003: Message edited by: Ðraikar ]

Posts: 1710 | From: USA, New York | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

Thad
First Class Passenger
Member # 1224

posted 07-02-2003 07:51 PM

Joe, unfortunately, the book is still not with me. I found these scans on the net, and felt you all might enjoy them. From what I remember of the book, there is an image of the President Washington, but none of the America II. The book does have a lengthy chapter on the Amerika / Victoria, North German Lloyd's answer to the QM and Normandie. She was to be a large single stacker, over 86,000 GRT, but did not look her size. As to the Bretagne, the image shows one design, put forth by the original architect of the Normandie. The 100,000 GRT ship was to be totally streamlined, and also sail as a huge one class tourist liner. In the end CGT decided against this design, and were said to be considering a more modern two stack version of the Normandie, as similar to her as the QE was to the QM. The Vaterland was actually launched and looked maybe 60 percent complete before she was bombed out during the war. Hope this is all interesting to you all.

Thad

Posts: 1967 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged

Thad
First Class Passenger
Member # 1224

posted 07-02-2003 09:03 PM

One more. A design for a six funneled german liner from the early 20th century

Posts: 1967 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged

JOE
First Class Passenger
Member # 3708

posted 07-02-2003 09:29 PM

What is the address of this webpage that you discovered the drawings

Posts: 484 | From: Patterson, NJ | Registered: Mar 2003 | IP: Logged

Waynaro
First Class Passenger
Member # 3484

posted 07-02-2003 09:51 PM

The Q3 looks very similar to the Vistafjord and Sajafjord. Thanks Thad for the pics!

Posts: 6108 | From: Vallejo,CA : California Maritime Academy!!! | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged

Commodore
First Class Passenger
Member # 1575

posted 07-02-2003 09:55 PM

Thanks Thad for the drawings. I actually like the Bretagne, she looks somewhat like the Saturnia and Vulcania only larger and a funnel more forward. Then again it could just be me.

Posts: 1106 | From: New Jersey | Registered: Sep 2000 | IP: Logged

Thad
First Class Passenger
Member # 1224

posted 07-02-2003 10:09 PM

They were on a yahoo group called appropriately enough, intendedliners.

Posts: 1967 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged

Ðraikar
First Class Passenger
Member # 1153

posted 07-03-2003 04:35 PM

One other ship that was built but never searved as a passenger liner was Statendam that was kinda of a step sister to Titanic, built next to Britannic called Statendam but in WW1 Britain took over her and renamed her Justicia "avenger of the recently sunken Lusitania". After Britannic sunk, her crew went over to work on her and she sunk herself in the very last days of WW1 without ever serving as a passenger liner. Also Britannic a twin sister to Titanic but bigger also never served as a passenger liner. Below are what they would have looked like as a passenger ship.

Are these intended liners in that book ?

Posts: 1710 | From: USA, New York | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 07-03-2003 05:37 PM

How come you have STATENDAM (II) in Cunard livery?

Anyhow STATENDAM (III), which entered service in 1929, was very similar, and so you could say that the final evolution of OLYMPIC's design did not leave the yeard until 18 years after she did!

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

Ðraikar
First Class Passenger
Member # 1153

posted 07-03-2003 08:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cruiseny:
How come you have STATENDAM (II) in Cunard livery?

She is in the colors as the intended Justicia for Cunard

Posts: 1710 | From: USA, New York | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

Titanic
First Class Passenger
Member # 3467

posted 07-03-2003 11:01 PM

Um Justicia was intended for HAL

looks like a photo of titanic all rearranged.

Posts: 30 | From: United States America | Registered: Nov 2002 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 07-03-2003 11:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Ðraikar:
She is in the colors as the intended Justicia for Cunard

She was never intended for Cunard... She was intended for HAL!

Had she survived the war, she would have become HAL's STATENDAM. Britain could not take the ship away as war reparations like they did with the German ships as they were not at war with the Netherlands...

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

Ðraikar
First Class Passenger
Member # 1153

posted 07-04-2003 12:10 AM

HAL could not finish her.... Britain needed ship for troopship duties so they gave parts to HAL for the hull and finished her themselfs !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She was named Justicia and given to Cunard to run, but Cunard did not have the people to run her so White Star Line used her only until Cunard could but she sank... If she survived the WAR Cunard would have used her since they would have ran her as a passenger ship !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

British government owned her and never intended to sell her back.

[ 07-04-2003: Message edited by: Ðraikar ]

Posts: 1710 | From: USA, New York | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

Brian_O
First Class Passenger
Member # 3910

posted 07-04-2003 12:18 AM

quote:
Originally posted by cruiseny:
Had she survived the war, she would have become HAL's STATENDAM.

This is not necessarily true. Her disposition after the war was made moot by her sinking.

The British government had negotiated her take over with her Dutch owners. She was then assigned to Cunard to operate her...hence the Cunard-type name and Cunard funnel colours. However Cunard was unable to man her and she was re-assigned to the White Star line and operated by them.

Had she servived the war, she might have gone to Cunard to replace the Lusitania if the British government had been able to negotiate suitable compensation with the Dutch.

[ 07-04-2003: Message edited by: Brian_O ]

Posts: 2698 | From: Pointe-Claire, QC Canada | Registered: Jun 2003 | IP: Logged

cruiseny
First Class Passenger
Member # 2928

posted 07-04-2003 12:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Ðraikar:
She was named Justicia and given to Cunard to run, but Cunard did not have the people to run her so White Star Line used her only until Cunard could but she sank... If she survived the WAR Cunard would have used her since they would have ran her as a passenger ship !

If you don't mind my asking, where did you hear this?

It's just contrary to everything I've seen before.

Posts: 4730 | From: New York, USA | Registered: Mar 2002 | IP: Logged

Brian_O
First Class Passenger
Member # 3910

posted 07-04-2003 12:25 AM

quote:
Originally posted by cruiseny:

If you don't mind my asking, where did you hear this?

It is in the book (Damned by Destiny) that we have been talking about. Right, Draikar?

[ 07-04-2003: Message edited by: Brian_O ]

Posts: 2698 | From: Pointe-Claire, QC Canada | Registered: Jun 2003 | IP: Logged

Ðraikar
First Class Passenger
Member # 1153

posted 07-04-2003 12:28 AM

Great Ocean Liner Page
Great ship page
Cunard great history; book

British Government paid with ship engine parts and i think steel also

Posts: 1710 | From: USA, New York | Registered: Mar 2000 | IP: Logged

CGT
First Class Passenger
Member # 3531

posted 07-04-2003 12:28 AM

Wow. That design for the Bretagne is rather bizarre and not at all what I expected. It's the pancake liner! The two stacker version of the Normadie is more what I thought she would look like. Thanks so much for posting it.

Posts: 2760 | From: New York, New York, USA | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

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