Best, Onno

PS: What do you think of the poster?

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Originally posted by Onno:
[QB]
PS: What do you think of the poster?

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I think that this "poster" contributes much to the discussion about ships and his postings are always of interest!

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Originally posted by Maasdam:
In Rotterdam there is no discusion about this poster, here in the city it's not a issue. And really it must not be a discusion here on cruise talk.

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I disagree on that matter such a poster is deigned with a purpose to reach the most people. Since it is shown in public people can form opinions. With the aid of the internet these days communication is a global experience, so why not discuss it on CT.

As a graphic designer I think the poster is okay (not excellent) advertisements for cultural events may have a more controversial or shocking effect to get the attention it needs. In this regard the poster is rather mild. I have seen better or more shocking poster so to say. Since I haven’t seen (or rather said heard) the opera I can not judge if the poster reflects a correct image. I have read that the shooting incident isn’t even handled actively in the opera it only is mention in a brief introduction. Nevertheless the incident was big enough for the opera to get its name from. So in a fact the poster conveys in one instant the title of the piece. This kind of poster design is meant to spark an opinion or reaction and the designer is well aware that it does that and even expects the poster to trigger a reaction.

I think the suspense kind of approach works better then the direct showing, for me this results in taking the poster and/or massage with your in your subconscious mind where you will work it out individually.

I must say the poster attracted me because a ship was portrayed and only secondly I noticed Klinghoffer falling over the railing. As for the use of this particular image I see no objection, it is as it happened. Utilizing these sort of events can be acceptable if it is don objectively, if you don’t use it as a highly commercial tool or for propaganda purposes. As a designer you need to be careful not to let it fall into a simple trick.

I don’t see a problem in discussing the poster (or discussing this stuff in general) discussion keeps a progressive flow that can have a constructive result. It is good to question things around you every now and then and not take everything for granted, as long as you keep an open mind.

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Originally posted by Maasdam:
In Rotterdam there is no discusion about this poster, here in the city it's not a issue. And really it must not be a discusion here on cruise talk.

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Originally posted by Ðraikar:

Not talking openly about things (and this IS cruise related) seems almost like fascism.

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Draikar i´m not a fasischt in every way i want to point out that this poster is not a isseu in Rotterdam and have not heard anithing about a discusion ore what so ever. I never want to stop the discusion about this poster but fore me it is not a form fore discusion. And i think also fore the Rotterdammers there are more consern about things happening in this world the War in Irak the bombings off Israelli´s busses and killing innocent people aboard those busses. Hungry, aids, economical problems etc etc. That is fore me very importened than a poster wich maybe is not tastfull. I wanted poitened out one more time the dead off mister Klinghoffer shocked me then and now i´m still impressed by his dead as thene.
His familly must miss hame very much every day.

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Originally posted by Onno:

PS: What do you think of the poster?

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In my opinion (being a senior Rotterdammer too), the whole idea of making an opera and making this poster is TASTELESS!!

Best, Onno

PS: The fascist bit was not necessary, if Maasdam/Ben thinks it is not worthy of a discussion it is his opinion. That was exactly the reason why I brought up the poster discussion. I would not say that bigger world wide issues are less important but the small things are evenly important enough to discuss, It actually are the small everyday things that are interesting to discuss, it triggers the opinions of others and shows the different ways we all think.

The big world wide issues are mostly the result because both parties won’t listen to each others opinions about the little things.

[ 03-09-2004: Message edited by: Onno ]

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Hijacker of Achille Lauro dead

Tuesday, March 9, 2004 Posted: 4:24 PM EST (2124 GMT)

RAMALLAH, West Bank (AP) -- Abu Abbas, head of a Palestinian splinter group, who masterminded the 1985 hijacking of an Italian passenger ship in which an American tourist was killed, has died in U.S. custody in Iraq, Palestinian officials said Tuesday.

The ship, the Achille Lauro, was commandeered by Abbas' small Palestine Liberation Front. Palestinian militants threw an elderly wheelchair-bound Jewish American tourist, Leon Klinghoffer, overboard.

Abbas was captured in Iraq in April by U.S. forces. Late Tuesday, officials in Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's office, speaking on condition of anonymity, said that Abbas had died in U.S. custody.

In Washington, a U.S. official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said Abu Abbas died recently of natural causes while in U.S. custody in Iraq. The official said his health had been deteriorating. He was believed to be in U.S. military custody.

When Abbas was captured, the Palestinian Authority demanded his release, saying the United States had pledged not to prosecute him as part of a blanket promise not to press charges against Palestinians who acted against Israel before interim peace accords were signed in the 1990s.

The United States also endorsed a 1995 interim peace deal between Israel and the Palestinians which grants PLO members immunity for violent acts committed before September 1993, when the two sides signed a mutual recognition agreement.

Abu Abbas has been a marginal figure in the PLO. Abbas, 55, was a member of the PLO's executive committee, but left in 1991. His tiny faction has very few followers in the West Bank and Gaza. According to Israel's Shin Bet security service, the PLF has sent some members to Iraq for military training.

In April 1996, Abu Abbas visited Gaza for the first time, as part of the amnesty offered by Israel. At the time, he apologized for the killing of Klinghoffer.

In 1998, he returned to attend a session of the Palestine National Council, the Palestinians' parliament-in-exile, for a crucial vote on abrogating chapters of the PLO founding charter calling for Israel's destruction. In the end, Abu Abbas did not participate in the vote.

At that time, Israeli attorney general Elyakim Rubinstein said Abu Abbas did not pose a threat to Israeli security, and that it would be unreasonable to prosecute him for acts committed before 1993.

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Draikar: you mentioned facism, lest not forget the USA court appointed president

[ 03-10-2004: Message edited by: desirod7 ]

*as this topic has been debated very hotly, and someone has been called 'fascist', this can't be totally unimportant or not worthy of a debate.

*I do not consider this a good poster. It looks more like the cover of some thriller à la "Terrorists on a Cruise" - I do not know the Opera, but I can assume it is considered (at least by the artists) to be a serious piece of drama, with modern classical music, about a theme (or perceived theme) very central this days, terrorism in every day life.

This poster is nog inviting to go to the performance and make me think and appreciate the transformation of a terrible fact in an universal mindprovoking piece of art. It is not respectful either of mr.Klinghoffer, the drama on the Achille Lauro (and thus the ship), and the artists of the opera.

There has been a strong and high quality tradition of Dutch passenger shipping poster art the last century, and this doesn't seem to me up to it.

I am no graphic designer, but I think a poster with the Achille Lauro drawn à la Statendam -Cassandre, or the famous Queen MAry funnels, with the funnels draped in those terrorist shawls, and very small, almost unnoticeable, the falling chair, stylised alongside the hull, all in dark blue colors (as was the ship's hull and funnels), would be more effective, shocking but not sensational, and more in essence true to the drama and mr.Klinghoffer.

It is just an idea of mine.

The film is shorter than the opera (1h58min) and the music is performed by the London Symphonic Orchestra.

The film has receivd the Prix Italia 2003 award.

"Curate and librettist

John Adams ' controversial opera The Death of Klinghoffer is being staged this week in Britain for the first time. It tells the story of the hijacking of the Achille Lauro and was seen as being anti-semitic when it was first performed. The words were written by Alice Goodman, an American Jew, who has since converted to Christianity and now works as a curate in Kidderminister.

She joins Jenni to discuss how writing sermons for her congregation compares to writing world famous operas.

The Death of Klinghoffer, by John Adams - Tue 23, Thu 25, Sat 27 and Mon 29 August 7.15pm at Edinburgh Festival Theatre."

You can listen to the interview from the BBC Radio 4 page.

It saddens to to read, it's not an issue for the people of rotterdam. Is it becuase it didn't happen to "me" attitude, so it's not my problem?

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Originally posted by Hi Seas:
I think the graphical picture is unnecesary. Do the advertising agencies Rotterdam really think that low of the citizens that they need to spell things out for them?

It saddens to to read, it's not an issue for the people of rotterdam. Is it becuase it didn't happen to "me" attitude, so it's not my problem?

Apparently and evidently the advertisers have reached yet again, a new all time low. We know what happened to Mr. Klinghoffer. We don't need to see such tastless picutures of the actual event. Much the same as when the Twin Towers got slammed, we don't need posters showing the office workers choosing to jump from 99 stories up becuase the staircases and hallways were ablaze with fireballs 2000 degrees.

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This topic i very dated.

But Whene the posters in Rotterdam appear there was no discusion we have seen more shocking posters like this one. Further there was also almost no attention in the media fore this production. You say "Is it becuase it didn't happen to "me" attitude, so it's not my problem" It's not treu i believe that the Rotterdammers are very with both feet on the ground poeple. The production was one of many based on a treu and sad story on one point you cane ceep bussy to discus.

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Originally posted by kit:
i cann't resist to react on this issue because i feel hurt that somebody thinks that Rotterdammers don't give a dame when something really bad happens to others. Rotterdammers are people who cares a lott, but they are people who don't stay yammering about things that are happend but straithen there backs and stay on there feeds and go on ,because they want to survive.Sorry,i had to say that because i am very ,very proud of my Rotterdam and don't accept it that anyone is offending her and her habitants. KIT

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Thank you KIT you said it on a very powerfull way.