Could Queen Mary Be On Her Way Home?
By Keith Hamilton

An ambitious multi-million pound bid to save a legendary Cunard liner from the scrapyard and bring her back to Southampton has been launched today.

The ultimate aim is for Queen Mary to become a major national tourist attraction, luxury hotel and a centre for maritime studies on Southampton's waterfront.

Although Queen Mary is not yet up for sale, there are fears she could soon be making a one-way voyage to the breaker's yard as the price of steel soars on the global metal market.

A £10 million scheme is being put together by south coast businessman Roger Hardingham to buy the world-famous ship in California, where she is facing financial uncertainty, make her seaworthy once again and tow her round Cape Horn for the long Atlantic voyage back to Southampton.

Shipping enthusiast Mr Hardingham, who originally comes from Hamble, said: "We must save this old girl for posterity. This year is the 70th anniversary of her maiden voyage from Southampton, and bringing her home would be the best birthday present we could give her.

"This is no pie-in-the-sky dream but a real proposition, as Queen Mary is in the last-chance saloon.

"It's up to Southampton and the people who love this Cunarder to ensure we save this wonderful ship for future generations."

There are still many former crew members living in and around Southampton, including 73-year-old Bernard Webb, who served at sea for almost half a century before retiring in 1996.

"It is an awfully big and ambitious plan but, if it did succeed, just imagine what it would be like seeing Queen Mary sailing up Southampton Water again," said Mr Webb, who began his sea-going career at the age of 14.

"When Queen Mary sailed away from Southampton for that final time it was a bad day for the city.

"If she does return, it would be a great opportunity for us."

For decades Queen Mary was a symbol of the nation's and Southampton's maritime heritage, but now there is real danger Queen Mary could be sold off to scrap merchants in the Far East or Pakistan unless a secure future can be found for her.

Top-level talks with potential backers and supporters, including Associated British Ports (ABP) - owners and operators of Southampton docks - and the city council are to be held as the bid to preserve the ship for Southampton takes shape.

Mr Hardingham tried to buy Queen Mary in 1992.

He almost pulled off the deal but, in the end, the ship's present owners, the city authority of Long Beach, California, decided to keep the vessel and try to make it pay its way.

Ever since arriving in Long Beach in 1967, Queen Mary has had a long list of operators who have all tried to make the liner a success.

However, the ship has had to ride out many financial storms since she left Southampton for the last time nearly 40 years ago.

"Queen Mary is in deep trouble, going from crisis to crisis, and something has to be done and done now," said Mr Hardingham.

"We must take action but, at the same time, I realise the practicalities behind formulating a bid.

"It is going to need all the support we can get.

"I don't believe there would be any trouble in raising enough money to buy the ship and bring her back but, of course, we also have to set up the complex infrastructure needed to have her alongside in Southampton.

"The city is where Queen Mary should be. That is her home, not California.

"Not only should the ship be here for historical purposes, but the commercial potential is huge.

"Queen Mary means so little to the west coast of America. She is just a place to go and sit and eat a burger.

"But on this side of the Atlantic she is truly something special.

"In Southampton the liner would be a great success and her presence in the city would work as she is such a part of our heritage and would be a huge attraction, bringing people from all over the UK.

"There are many supporters, including some well-known names, who I have already contacted. Everyone is right behind bringing her back.

"As part of my previous bid the ship was set to be berthed in the city's Eastern Docks, near where the old seaplanes were based opposite Town Quay, and so I shall be seeking a meeting with ABP to see if this option is still open."

Mr Hardingham is also investigating how the ship would be brought back.

He is confident that Dutch maritime experts would be able to carry out the tow from Long Beach to Southampton. "She will need to be strengthened for such a long voyage as, when she arrived in Long Beach, many of her bulkheads were removed, but I have been told she would make the trip, "said Mr Hardingham.

"I think there is a real danger that Queen Mary could end up in the scrapyard, but there is determination that this will not happen."

Peter West, the secretary of the Queen Mary Asscoiation, made up of 130 of the ship's former crew members, said: "It is a fantastic dream to bring her back, but there must be real questions over whether it is really feasible or not.

"Of course, if it did happen, it would be great news for Southampton, but then Queen Mary should never have been allowed to go to California all those years ago."

A spokesman for ABP said: "We have had no formal approach over this plan as yet but, as always, we will judge any commercial proposition on its merits."

Mr Hardingham has set up a website where people can register support for his plan. Log on to info@rmsqueenmary.co.uk.

Exciting Plans...

Southampton City Council's Cabinet member for tourism and leisure Councillor Peter Wakeford said the proposals were "exiting".

He added that the plans would put the elusive "Wow" factor into Southampton.

He said: "It is an exciting prospect and I look forward to hearing further details about the proposals that are being brought forward.

"We will sit down and discuss these plans with great interest. It would ass the wow factor to the city and would add enormously to the attractions within the city and would increase the number of tourists who would visit Southampton. It would figure very prominently indeed if the plans can be pulled off."

The Hurdles

Whoever wins the battle for Queen Mary will have to overcome huge financial as well as practical hurdles if they are to take control of the historic vessel.

The company which operates the landmark ship in Long Beach, California is at the centre of a multi-million dollar cash wrangle that has seen it plummet into bankruptcy.

Discussions have been taking place for months to bring Queen's Seaport Development Incorporated, which operates Queen Mary, out of bankruptcy - but no deal has yet been secured.

It now means that bids can be submitted to American courts from outside parties to try to save the company and take control of the ship.

Queen's Seaport Development holds a 66-year lease from the city council for the landmark Queen Mary and the 55 acres surrounding it.

The non-profit RMS Foundation continues to operate the ship and is not part of the bankruptcy.

But in March last year Queen's Seaport Development filed for bankruptcy after the local council, which owns the ship, demanded they pay back the $5 million it claims it is owed in back rent for the site.

Any British consortium looking to pay up the millions it would cost towing the ageing Queen Mary home will also have to defeat other bids.

US company Bandero is among firms trying to put together a rescue package. Under its proposals Queen Mary could be a centrepiece for a huge marina development, which would include a 300-room hotel, homes and a shopping centre.

Interest has also been shown by a northern Californian millionaire who is also a Queen's Seaport Development creditor, Barney Ng.

But manny questions i have. The most importened is could she survive a long tow back to Brittain. Afterall she must circel South America she is to long to enter the Panama canal. And quit a risk to a more thene 70 year old vessel wich have been moved fore 40 years. And the report say it she must be strenghtend. i believe also the concreet placed in here hull to fix here must taken out. And the list will go on and on and on.

I think it will never happen.
But hé i thought the s.s. Rotterdam 5 would be scrapped but survived and now on here return to Rotterdam. The wonders cane happen.

wait and see.
Greetings Ben.

[ 02-01-2006: Message edited by: Maasdam ]

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Originally posted by lasuvidaboy:
[...] (unless she sank enroute ).

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This is precisely the problem - to have Queen Mary in Southhampton would be perfect but when I think about the risks to get her there I get quite nervouse - it is not a good combination:
- A 72 years old hull (this is not really the problem there are older ships in service )
- which has not been proplery looked after and been 'rottening away' for DECADES
- AND the most violent sea on the planet
- AND being towed and not going under own power

=> sounds like a nightmare to me.

If it really is not possible to keep her in Long Beach what would be other - easier to reach - alternative berths for her?

[ 01-11-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]

[ 01-11-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]

I cannot believe that even with spending millions, QM will be able to withstand the forces on her hull being towed so far. Where she is, and what she has to withstand currently and has done for so long... longer than she sailed the 7 Seas for, is nothing compared to being towed, even in calm waters. She is best left where she is, the operations make a profit, the Long Beach PTB are partly to blame for the predicament re the lease etc.

Has her hull been surveyed recently... properly with depth of steel machines [forget name].. I expect in places she is rather thin and worn. Could her funnels even take the sea breezes offshore? someone mentioned not so long ago they looked a bit precarious.

Prepare for QE2, although QM is more of a puller, she's not viable imo.

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Originally posted by PamM:
Could her funnels even take the sea breezes offshore? someone mentioned not so long ago they looked a bit precarious.

Pam

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Originally posted by PamM:
Oh yes, but the 'new' ones are just as old now, and probably were not of the same standard as the originals if purely put in place for her static role? They would not have been subjected to the wear and tear in the same manner, but I would wonder about their strength, should she be towed. It's a long way through stormy seas.

Pam

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I’m glad Rotterdam V preservation is still on the right track (though she had her scary moments as well)

I hardly think that the great British public would be fighting to visit her, 'ocean Liners' are a minority interest.

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Originally posted by sslewis:
QM1 doesn't even need towing as heavylift ships can do the job safely, saving on preparations and tow dangers.
Come on Navy people, help save your heritage!

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Louy, which Heavy Lift vessel can possibly carry Queen Mary? I though Blue Marlin was the largest and you would have to saw QM in half for that

Or is there some new vessel about?

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Originally posted by PamM:
I though Blue Marlin was the largest and you would have to saw QM in half for that

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To clarify a couple of other matters, QM does not have concrete in the hull. Some of the fuel tanks have been filled with drilling mud to provide weight in the bottom of the ship, however other ballast tanks remain empty and can be filled to trim the ship to allow the boot topping to be painted. An original Centrex ballast pump remains in place to operate this system. Other that that, she floats with the tide.

Her hull was surveyed a couple of years back and all plating was found to be at least 90% of the original thickness. She has a cathodic protection system on the hull to prevent corrosion. There are some isolated patches of rust but they are not significant. What is of concern is the large number of inlets and outlets on the shell plating that were removed and welded over during the LB conversion. There are 100+ of these and each would need inspection.

The hull would also need significant internal strengthening to make up for the removal of so many watertight bulheads, plus additional ballast to compensate for the 20,000 tonnes of machinery removed and restore the centre of gravity. The large number of rigid internal structures built into the ship since she arrived at LB would also need removal as they would not flex sufficiently when she was at sea.

The funnels were replaced with aluminium replicas when she arrived at LB and could easily be removed. He funnel uptakes were plated over at each level to provide additional deckspace and accordingly the funnels do not cover any uptake holes.

As yet no one has mentioned taking her across the Pacific, Indian Ocean and Suez to Southampton instead of Cape Horn. Would this be a safer route if done at the right time of year? This route could also give the impression she is going to the breakers.

******

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Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
If one of the richest nations in the world cannot make the QM pay and cannot afford to maintain her, how long would she last in wet and windy Southampton?

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Originally posted by Ernst:
I would also prefer to see her in Southampton - she somehow belongs there more than to Long Beach - but I actually do not have the impression that she is not appreciated where she is now. (Would it be better in Southampton?) Remember the myriads of films which have been shot aboard her - some like 'The Thirteenth Floor' did not even use her as a ship but just for her original interior.

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Originally posted by Ernst:
some like 'The Thirteenth Floor' did not even use her as a ship but just for her original interior.

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But this news has me very distressed. I'm begging my wife now to let us go out there, even for a few days, just to bask in her glory before it's too late.

[ 01-16-2006: Message edited by: BigUFan ]