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»	Cruise Talk » Ocean Liners and Classic Cruise Ships » 1976 - 2006 (Page 1)

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Topic: 1976 - 2006

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 08-23-2006 07:19 PM

Thirty years - the cruise industry has changed quite a bit during that time. Travelling by ship has changed quite a bit since then - or hasn't it?

The 'mainstream' these days is dominated by ships of behemoth size - unimaginable in 1976. BUT there are still ships around these days which offer a similar expierience as one typically got in the 70ies.

Altough we lost a lot of nice, old ships since then some of the prominent ships of the 70ies are still around and somehow still operated in a similar manner - the Vistafjord and the Royal Viking ships come to my mind.

Also there are modern ships which somehow continue this 'conventional way' of cruising - AND if one e.g. compares the capacity of the larger Crystal ships to the smaller Royal Viking trio the two Crystal ships in 2006 offer more beds than the three Royal Viking ships in 1976!

So maybe it's not that bad at all - maybe we are better off! Or not?

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

Patsy
First Class Passenger
Member # 5611

posted 08-23-2006 07:39 PM

Interesting question. Worse off I'd say due to the number of ships around today compared with 30 years ago. Also they're getting uglier. They may be nice inside (though some have some appalling decor) but will anyone really be sad when they go to the breakers? But that's my opinion. Can't wait to read those who disagree with me.

Posts: 2023 | From: Hythe, Hants | Registered: Apr 2005 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 08-23-2006 07:53 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Patsy:
[..] Worse off I'd say due to the number of ships around today compared with 30 years ago.

Are you sure? Depends of course which ships operational today passes as comparable. (..this might make the discussion interesting...)
And - as said above - the number of ships might be smaller - but even in this segment the ships are larger these days - which might result in an overall increase in capacity. Also, in 1976 many old ships have been lai-up or already scrapped.
And the Vistafjord and Sagafjord are maybe better looking than ever before. (I do not know how the operation of Saga compares to NAC or Cunard)

Anyone volunteering for a list? (..at least for the ships operational in 1976 ...)

[ 08-23-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

mec1
First Class Passenger
Member # 4287

posted 08-23-2006 08:21 PM

Well I keep on saying this but I will say it again.

I think that we are repeating an iterative cycle in which every generation laments the ships of the past and rails against the ugliness of new ships.

I can imagine former Cruisetalkers moaning about the loss of paddles, or the ungainly superstructures of the Oceanic (1899) or the horror of four funnels.

I think this is an age-old process. And to support my argument, I would cite the Royal Viking trio and Royal Princess as exemplars of ships that were thought to be ugly upon their introduction but which are now regarded as classics.

I don't think today's ships are innately ugly - they are just DIFFERENT. Just as the Great Eastern or the original White Star liners are different to Orion or Mauretania.

Posts: 1675 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged

DAMBROSI
First Class Passenger
Member # 100

posted 08-23-2006 09:00 PM

I would'nt exactly say 4 or 3 funnels are a horror. I love them myself..but todays cruise ships are no match to the ones of the 20's-80's. They don't have class, they are ugly looking. I think the only one I may cry over of any of them will be the QM 2 or the QUEEN VICTORIA when it comes time. But the others, nope....they just don't measure up to the ones we're losing now. Because when we go on board these cruise ships, it's like watching cattle being boarded on. And the cruise lines see nothing but money. Plain and simple, that is my own opinion.

Posts: 2554 | From: Florida, USA, Where the Legend SS NORWAY sailed from. Moving back to FL next yr. | Registered: May 99 | IP: Logged

Thad
First Class Passenger
Member # 1224

posted 08-23-2006 09:03 PM

I can start on ships operational in 1976, and let people go from there. I am sure I am missing a bunch.

Cunard
QE2
Cunard Countess
Cunard Adventurer

HAL
Rotterdam
Statendam
Prinsendam

Home Lines
Oceanic
Doric

Princess Cruises
Sun Princess
Island Princess
Pacific Princess

Monarch Cruises
Monarch Star
Monarch Sun

HAPAG
Europa

Sitmar
Fairsea
Fairwind
Fairstar

P&O
Canberra
Oriana
Arcadia
Uganda

Polish Ocean Lines
Stefan Batory

RCCL
Song of Norway
Nordic Prince
Sun Viking

RVL
RV Sky
RV Star
RV Sea

Carnival
Mardi Gras
Carnivale

Eastern Cruise
Emerald Seas

Costa
Andrea C
Franca C
Enrico C
Eugenio C
Carla C
Flavia
Italia

Karras Cruise
Danae
Daphne

Black Sea Shipping
Ivan Franco
Bashkira
Taras Shevchenko
Shota Rustaveli
Fedor Shalyapin
Maxim Gorky
Belorussiya
Azerbaihzan
Odessa
Gruziya
Kazakhstan
Kareliya

NAC
Sagafjord
Vistafjord

NCL
Skyward
Starward
Southward

Royal Cruise Line
Golden Odyssey

Karageorgis Line
Navarino
Med Sea
Med Sky

Chandris
Britanis
Ellinis
Australis
Amerikanis
Bon Vivant
Regina Prima
Romantica
Romanza
The Victoria

Lauro Lines
Achille Lauro
Angelina Lauro

Italian Line
Cristoforo Colombo
Leonardo Da Vinci
Augustus
Guglielmo Marconi

Lloyd Triestino
Galileo Galilei

Adriatica
Ausonia

Ulysses Line
Calypso

Union Castle - SAFMarine
Windsor Castle
Pendennis Castle
S.A. Vaal

Flagship
Kungsholm

Paquet
Mermoz
Renaissance
Eagle
Massalia

Epirotiki
Argontaut
Jason
Atlas
Neptune
Jupiter
Orpheus
Apollon
Oceanos

Dominion Line
Marco Polo

Sun Line
Stella Oceanis
Stella Solaris
Stella Maris

Lubeck Line
Regina Maris

I am sure there are many more that I cannot think of, but this is a good start to what was out there in 1976, a pretty diverse crowd I think..

Posts: 1967 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 08-23-2006 09:33 PM

Thanks for the list - indeed a fantastic fleet - I quickly added which ships are still around. (I am sure I missed some)

quote:
Originally posted by Thad:
[...]
Cunard
QE2 - STILL OPERATIONAL
Cunard Countess - STILL OPERATIONAL
Cunard Adventurer - STILL OPERATIONAL
HAL
Rotterdam - STILL AROUND!
Statendam
Prinsendam
Home Lines
Oceanic - STILL OPERATIONAL
Doric STILL AROUND?
Princess Cruises
Sun Princess - STILL OPERATIONAL
Island Princess - STILL OPERATIONAL
Pacific Princess - STILL OPERATIONAL
Monarch Cruises
Monarch Star
Monarch Sun
HAPAG
Europa
Sitmar
Fairsea
Fairwind
Fairstar
P&O
Canberra
Oriana
Arcadia
Uganda
Polish Ocean Lines
Stefan Batory
RCCL
Song of Norway - STILL OPERATIONAL
Nordic Prince - STILL OPERATIONAL
Sun Viking - STILL OPERATIONAL
RVL
RV Sky - STILL OPERATIONAL
RV Star - STILL OPERATIONAL
RV Sea - STILL OPERATIONAL
Carnival
Mardi Gras
Carnivale
Eastern Cruise
Emerald Seas
Costa
Andrea C
Franca C
Enrico C
Eugenio C
Carla C
Flavia
Italia - STILL OPERATIONAL
Karras Cruise
Danae - STILL OPERATIONAL
Daphne - STILL OPERATIONAL
Black Sea Shipping
Ivan Franco
ALEKSANDR PUSHKIN - STILL OPERATIONAL
Bashkira - STILL OPERATIONAL
Taras Shevchenko
Shota Rustaveli
Fedor Shalyapin
Maxim Gorky - STILL OPERATIONAL
Belorussiya - STILL OPERATIONAL
Azerbaihzan
Odessa - STILL AROUND
Gruziya - STILL OPERATIONAL (?)
Kazakhstan
Kareliya - STILL OPERATIONAL (?)
NAC
Sagafjord - STILL OPERATIONAL
Vistafjord - STILL OPERATIONAL
NCL
Skyward - STILL OPERATIONAL
Starward - STILL OPERATIONAL
Southward - STILL OPERATIONAL
Royal Cruise Line
Golden Odyssey - STILL OPERATIONAL
Karageorgis Line
Navarino
Med Sea
Med Sky
Chandris
Britanis
Ellinis
Australis
Amerikanis
Bon Vivant
Regina Prima
Romantica
Romanza
The Victoria
Lauro Lines
Achille Lauro
Angelina Lauro
Italian Line
Cristoforo Colombo
Leonardo Da Vinci
Augustus - STILL AROUND!
Guglielmo Marconi
Lloyd Triestino
Galileo Galilei
Adriatica
Ausonia - STILL OPERATIONAL
Ulysses Line
Calypso
Union Castle - SAFMarine
Windsor Castle
Pendennis Castle
S.A. Vaal
Flagship
Kungsholm - STILL OPERATIONAL
Paquet
Mermoz - STILL OPERATIONAL
Renaissance - STILL OPERATIONAL
Eagle - STILL OPERATIONAL
Massalia - STILL OPERATIONAL

Epirotiki
Argontaut
Jason
Atlas
Neptune
Jupiter
Orpheus
Apollon
Oceanos
Dominion Line
Marco Polo
Sun Line
Stella Oceanis
Stella Solaris
Stella Maris
Lubeck Line
Regina Maris
[..]

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

gpcruisedude
First Class Passenger
Member # 3533

posted 08-23-2006 09:49 PM

you must not forget the former Carnivale is still in operation as is the Stella Maris, and I think the Europa is too.

Posts: 865 | From: Grande Prairie,Alberta | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 08-23-2006 09:51 PM

Here an incomplete (!) of 'not Las Vegas style' ships built after 1976 which are still in service:

Spirit of Adventurer (Berlin)
Holiday Dream (Europa)
Astor
Astoria
Artemis (Royal Princess)
Prinsendam (Royal Viking Sun)
Bremen
Hanseatic
Costa Europa
Norwegian Crown
Asuka II (Crystal Harmony)
Crystal Symphony
Crystal Serenity
Sea Dream vessels (2 - ex Sea Godess)
Renaissance ships
R-vessels
Orion
Xpedition
World Discovery
Hurtigruten vessels (do they count here?)
Noordam (now with Thomson
Niew Amsterdam (now with Thomson)
Europa
Silver Wind
Silver Cloud
Silver Shadow
Silver Whisper
Seabourn Spirit
Seabourn Pride
Seabourn Legend
Deutschland

Statendam class ?

Song of America ?

....and if you want Queen Mary 2 (sorry - not Queen Victoria )

I am sure you can name some more!

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

gpcruisedude
First Class Passenger
Member # 3533

posted 08-23-2006 09:52 PM

oops and I forgot the Jason is still operating!!

Posts: 865 | From: Grande Prairie,Alberta | Registered: Dec 2002 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 08-23-2006 09:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by gpcruisedude:
you must not forget the former Carnivale is still in operation as is the Stella Maris, and I think the Europa is too.

The Europa of 1976 sank as Columbus C. in Cadiz.

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

Thad
First Class Passenger
Member # 1224

posted 08-23-2006 11:51 PM

Of course since 1976 the Cunard Princess entered service in 1977 and is still in service. Also the Regina Maris is still around as a charter yacht, looking pretty swanky... The former Doric unfortunately sank off South Africa on her way to the breakers early in the 2000's.

Posts: 1967 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Apr 2000 | IP: Logged

Brian_O
First Class Passenger
Member # 3910

posted 08-24-2006 12:19 AM

Thad:

To your fantastic list for 1976 we can add:

Black Sea
Alexandr Pushkin (today's Marco Polo )
Mikhail Lermontov (sank 1986)

Adriatica
Victoria (today's Anastasis)

Lloyd Triestino
The following ships were still in service at the start of 1976 but not at the end of the year.
.
Africa (laid up Jan 31, 1976. Scrapped as Protea 1980)
Europa* (withdrawn in mid 1976. Burnt and sank as Blue Sea, November 1976)

Brian

*My favourite ship.

[ 08-24-2006: Message edited by: Brian_O ]

Posts: 2698 | From: Pointe-Claire, QC Canada | Registered: Jun 2003 | IP: Logged

NAL
First Class Passenger
Member # 1102

posted 08-24-2006 08:16 AM

Thad......great list, thank you. However, NAC did not exist at that time. It was still NAL...Norwegian
America Line, not Norwegian American Cruises. I believe it was Karas Cruises, not Cruise. Thanks again for all your work.

Posts: 2243 | From: Watsontown, PA | Registered: Feb 2000 | IP: Logged

DAMBROSI
First Class Passenger
Member # 100

posted 08-24-2006 09:06 AM

And seeing that list goes to show you we've lost many classics. Some are still around, but not sailing from the US. They're pretty much in Europe. I still wish they'd stop building these huge monsters, they're not aesthetically pleasing to look at.

Posts: 2554 | From: Florida, USA, Where the Legend SS NORWAY sailed from. Moving back to FL next yr. | Registered: May 99 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 08-24-2006 09:18 AM

Hey, it's not that bad - O.K. - looking at the list of 1976 there are some very prominent names which are missing in the list of 2006 - and this is indeed bad and sadly we can not change that.

But there are still some nice ships around - enough to keep you busy for quite some time - and many of the ships posted above also sail form the U.S.!

Certainly a lot of really, really nice ships have been lost - but maybe this thread can help you to see the bright side of life.

P.S.: If you extend the term 'nice ship' to include Queen Victoria - and I am sure she will be a nice ship - then the situation is even better.

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

Patsy
First Class Passenger
Member # 5611

posted 08-24-2006 09:41 AM

I'm completely with Dambrosi on this. Ships today are all style and no substance. Okay so you can have very nice interiors but far too many have hideous exteriors. They can make Vicky posher than Mary all they like inside. It still won't take away the fact that it (I refuse to call it a she) will be a modified clone which was horrible enough with the first revised artist's impression. Yes there were clones in the old days (Olympic sisters, Saxonia etc) but they all had style which is missing from today's ships. These days get rid of one in the fleet and there's still half a dozen left. You can't tell one from the other. And now with Carnival using the same basic designs across their brands it makes it all worse. As Dambrosi said, it's like cattle being boarded on. All they care about is how many more that can cram in. Less is more. At least with Mary she was sort of original, taking elements from the past for her exterior design. The rest have a serious lack of imagination. It's no wonder books like Kludas are now padded out with pages and pages of ferries because there aren't the ships out there today there were up to 1976. And what do you get when you look through the latest and finally come across any ships? A page or two of the same one with a different name. I think the only tears shed over them will be the pax who regularly cruise on them. But hey, there's still the half a dozen in the fleet to choose from as an instant replacement. It was amazing how Canberra's 'loyal' passengers quickly turned their alliegance to the previous Arcadia, with a very few saying they wouldn't go on another ship (though they probably have by now). Even building them these days is like playing with Lego.

There again it's all a matter of personal opinion. Some hate 4-stackers, others love them. So when the time comes for these boxes to go to the likes of Alang there'll be mourning over the loss and parties we're finally rid of the boxes.

Posts: 2023 | From: Hythe, Hants | Registered: Apr 2005 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 08-24-2006 09:58 AM

But you don't have to go with one of these large ships where one is 'treated like cattle' (just to cite what has been said above) - there are still other options - also sailing form the U.S..

It's more expensive than a typical Carnival or NCL cruise - but it also wasn't that cheap in 1976 - back then there was nothing around which is comparable to these large ships.

The question is whether there are maybe even more options today to go with 'small and mid sized ships' (by nowadays standards) than there were in 1976.

There is of course no equivalent for some of the ships which were around in 1976 anda re now gone - but some other ships from 1976 are still around - and there are also younger ships which offer a 'non mainstream' expierience.

[ 08-24-2006: Message edited by: Ernst ]

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

DAMBROSI
First Class Passenger
Member # 100

posted 08-24-2006 10:32 AM

You both have valid points...I'm going to have to see what the VICKY is going to look like. Have'nt been focusing on her lately.

Posts: 2554 | From: Florida, USA, Where the Legend SS NORWAY sailed from. Moving back to FL next yr. | Registered: May 99 | IP: Logged

linerguy
First Class Passenger
Member # 4289

posted 08-24-2006 10:48 AM

Forgive me but, all this bashing of modern day cruise ships has me a bit miffed. My favorite era for passenger ships is post-WW1 and pre-WW2...but the problem is I wasn't around back then so, the next best thing (for me anyway) is to embrace and enjoy what's out there NOW. And contrary to what some folks think, and as Ernst mentioned, there are some very nice ships out there. Yes, it's sad that the number of classic ships is forever dwindling but, the cycle goes on. In other words, 40 years from now, the modern ships that we now enjoy (or, for some of us, hate) will be considered classics....even the hideously decorated Carnival ships. Maybe not because of their design but rather the wonderful memories they are now creating....because, and most of you know this, the experience of being on a ship, just about any ship, is matchless. It's only partially about the hardware.

Don't get me wrong,...I'll take BERENGARIA, REX, NORMANDIE, etc. any day. But they're gone; and I can either stay at home, look out the window and long for something I can never have or I can, to quote RCI, get out there,...and enjoy the moment.

As far as being treated like cattle, let's not forget that there were a few ships, mainly the pre-WW1 IMPERATOR and VATERLAND, that carried over 5,000 passengers,...and these were just over the 50,000-ton mark. True, most of these folks were immigrants but that's besides the point. I suspect the scene was more of a cattle drive than anything we'll ever see. And unlike those courageous folks, all the passengers who embark today can look forward to luxurious and comfortable surroundings.

Russ

Posts: 1486 | From: Bright, Indiana | Registered: Dec 2003 | IP: Logged

J.S.S.Normandie
First Class Passenger
Member # 6253

posted 08-24-2006 10:58 AM

quote:
Originally posted by linerguy:
Forgive me but, all this bashing of modern day cruise ships has me a bit miffed. My favorite era for passenger ships is post-WW1 and pre-WW2...but the problem is I wasn't around back then so, the next best thing (for me anyway) is to embrace and enjoy what's out there NOW.

Well as ugly as the new cruise ships are today, its not ALL bad. We have the QM2 and Celebrity's Millenium class is quite nice, especially Summit. As much as I wish they built ships like Normandie, Andrea Doria, etc.. now we have to take what we have got. And yes, most are hideos behemoths, but there are a few gems amoungst them.

I mean Mec1 is right, theyre DIFFERENT. If back in the 1930's everyone was as rigid the Normandie woulod have been a nice little four funnel steamer, hold the raked bow, and a nice big wood paneled lounge. We have to embrace the chance and hope that it gets better over time.

Posts: 1197 | From: Massachusetts where the Brittania was trapped! | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged

Linerrich
First Class Passenger
Member # 4864

posted 08-24-2006 11:56 AM

An interesting aspect of this wishful thinking for classic-looking ships again: whenever there is some design with a retro-look, it becomes fashionable to bash that. People complain about the use of fake wood (hello, the use of real wood is impossible!), or too much retro styling, such as Art Deco, faux Edwardian, etc. If a ship is designed too plainly, or in very simple good taste (Princess, perhaps, for example) people complain that it's boring. The Farcus / Carnival vessels are too outlandish, etc. Seems that ship designers just cannot please everyone, which is exactly what has been happening with ships for over 100 years!

Not sure where I'm going with this post, except to say that I think people gradually adjust and adapt to whatever styling is given to them over time, just like cars, airplanes, hotels, houses, etc. What is shocking or disturbing today has a way of mellowing in our memories and becomes classic in years to come.

Rich

Posts: 4210 | From: Miami, FL | Registered: Jul 2004 | IP: Logged

Johan
First Class Passenger
Member # 4458

posted 08-24-2006 12:00 PM

I think the biggest difference is, over the last 30 years, that cruising has become much more affordable and "democratic", which is, on the whole, a very positive development.

I think there have always been "budget" student cruises (my fathers stories aboard the "Kriti" and "Rhodos" in the early '60's.... )
but you can get for a good price good quality these days. What is sometimes called "massmarket" is asfarasicanevaluate, really really good and above average

It is also recently that this happened :
with the sad end of Norway, i was looking in old 1999 brochures of her cruises in Europe : Norway's and Rembrandt's starting prices were then actually higher in absolute prices (not inflation adjusted) than what you can get now on Pullmantur or Costa, and Norway nor Rembrandt were in 1999 top end cruises. This is only 7 years ago !

I think there is today more variety than in 1976 : you can still cruise former transatlantic liners like QE2, Kungsholm/Mona Lisa, Marco Polo, Oceanic, Athena

but also, love or loathe them, state-of-the-art behemoths like the new Costa's, MSCMUsica, Catrnival Liberty, QM2
and almost anything between, from older like Funchal or Ausonia (pardon, Ivory), Monterey to the 1970's like Lili Marleen or Van Gogh, to smaller contemporaries like Blue Dream, etc or luxurious moderns like Century or Splendour /Jewel of the Seas

and this only in Europe ! and without really breaking the bank (only a bit)

Posts: 1895 | From: Antwerpen, Belgium | Registered: Feb 2004 | IP: Logged

J.S.S.Normandie
First Class Passenger
Member # 6253

posted 08-24-2006 12:19 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Linerrich:
An interesting aspect of this wishful thinking for classic-looking ships again: whenever there is some design with a retro-look, it becomes fashionable to bash that. People complain about the use of fake wood (hello, the use of real wood is impossible!), or too much retro styling, such as Art Deco, faux Edwardian, etc.

I dont want to see a mockup of the Normandie etc. in new cruise ships. Just as the Normandie, Ile de France, United States all were decorated with the most avant gard style of the time, that what should be on new ships. I want to see a cruise ship with sleek modern interiors. Not the faux wood etc. I do think that the art deco aspects used on the QM2 are quite nice. She remains quite modern but has throwbacks to the origional QM. Not just for the Normandie's art, I really like the Summit and other Millenium class ships. They are very origional and modern.

Posts: 1197 | From: Massachusetts where the Brittania was trapped! | Registered: Feb 2006 | IP: Logged

Ernst
First Class Passenger
Member # 5369

posted 08-24-2006 12:38 PM

Celebrity is indeed standing out - one can create a tasteful interior without the use of 'fake' materials - but this is of course a question of personal taste. Nevertheless, 'classics' ships (houses, cars etc.) were NEVER created by imitating the past - actually many things which set standards were very different.

To come back to the original idea of the thread:

Looking at the list of 1976, which kind of ships do you think are 'missing' today? We still have most of the back then new ships - but e.g. the prominent liners - like the Italia or P&O ships still operational back then do not have an equivalent these days.

Is someone volunteering for a count of vessels or count of passenger capacity? (1976 - 'non mainstream' 2006)

Posts: 9746 | From: Eindhoven | Registered: Jan 2005 | IP: Logged

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Celebrity - 7-Night Western Mediterranean from $549 per person

Description: For centuries people have traveled to Europe to see magnificent ruins, art treasures and natural wonders. And the best way to do so is by cruise ship. Think of it - you pack and unpack only once. No wasted time searching for hotels and negotiating train stations. Instead, you arrive at romantic ports of call relaxed, refreshed and ready to take on the world.

Holland America - Alaska from From $499 per person

Description: Sail between Vancouver and Seward, departing Sundays on the ms Statendam or ms Volendam and enjoy towering mountains, actively calving glaciers and pristine wildlife habitat. Glacier Bay and College Fjord offer two completely different glacier-viewing experiences.

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