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As I've mentioned many times in the past, if Star Cruises could rid themselves of the SS Norway, what makes anyone believe that they won't do the same thing to the Big U?
I can now say that the French Lines is now extinct as the last of the great French oceanliners will now be broken up. I should have seen this coming. I fear for the SS United States more than ever.
If there is an alternate reality somewhere out there, the SS France would be a major tourist attraction in France. Here are Reuben's final comments:
http://www.ssmaritime.com/newsupdates-1.htm
As long as I live, I will never forgive or forget the injustice of what transpired by NCL/Star Cruises.
As for NORWAY, it is ridiculous to blame NCL for the fact that nobody was willing or able to buy her for any purpose other than scrapping.
quote:Originally posted by dougnewman:As for NORWAY, it is ridiculous to blame NCL for the fact that nobody was willing or able to buy her for any purpose other than scrapping.
Pullmantur made an offer on the SSNorway shortly after the purchase of the Oceanic. SSNorway fits into their style of cruising. After the boiler blast they did not want her at all.
quote:Originally posted by Redlinekid2:Well Everyone, It seems like the SS Norway Saga has finally come to an end....I should have seen this coming...
Everyone with even a shred of credibility said this was over months ago. I suggest you start paying more attention to your sources before you get worked up over any more fantasy stories about saving old ships from the breakers.
Joe at TravelPage.com
quote:Originally posted by Redlinekid2:[...]As long as I live, I will never forgive or forget the injustice of what transpired by NCL/Star Cruises.
NCL was certainly negligent concerning the maintenance of Norway which lead to this fatal accident. But leaving the possibly criminal actions that led to the boiler explosion aside - why should one blame only NCL for the demise of Norway? They were the ones that extended her life for decades. Actually it was the state owned French Line you now miss so much that let her down. Without NCL she very likely would have been scrapped a long time ago.
Also, do not forget that the loss of this ship appears to be more severe because more or less all other 'old' ships have been scrapped. Many fine, still functional ships were sent to the scrap yard without any hesitation of their owners - and I hardly remember anyone calling that injustice. NCL can to a certain extend be blamed for the accident but they kept her going for quite a while and the rather extended lay-up following the accident gave attempts to safe her at least a chance. Giving that other lines scrapped fine ship without any hesitation I really wonder what the real reason for this irrational out of proportion hate against NCL is. It seems that it mostly can be ascribed to the unfortunate hatred campaign of Mr. Gossens and I start wondering whether the underlying reason for this hatred campaign might be blunt racism against the Asian owners of Star Cruises.
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:the real reason for this irrational out of proportion hate against NCL is. It seems that it mostly can be ascribed to the unfortunate hatred campaign of Mr. Gossens and I start wondering whether the underlying reason for this hatred campaign might be blunt racism against the Asian owners of Star Cruises.
Mr. Goosens is feeding his own ego and thirst for power.
He unifies people by hate through a common enemy. You find people whose life has failed them, have nobody and nothing. The con-artist then fills people with false feel good promises, blind faith, phoney acceptance, ostracism for non-compliance, and gang them up on a scapegoat. It is a tactic used by all of the worlds' murderous dictators, cult leaders, and televangelists.
It makes the masses feel good, causes zealots to fly civilian aircraft into office buildings, but accomplishes nothing.
Charlie Brown's Great Pumpkin is the proper metaphor.
[ 12-15-2007: Message edited by: desirod7 ]
quote:Originally posted by joe at travelpage:Everyone with even a shred of credibility said this was over months ago. I suggest you start paying more attention to your sources before you get worked up over any more fantasy stories about saving old ships from the breakers. Joe at TravelPage.com
Ok!
I will no longer cheer up support for any more ships to be saved.
I am glad to see that the SS Kungsholm and the QE2 are out of harms way.
The SS Norway's sacrifice will ensure that the SS United States will NEVER suffer that same fate as its French counterpart.
That is all.
quote:Originally posted by dougnewman:NCL has always made it clear that UNITED STATES' return to service was contingent on the success of NCL America.
No they did not. NCL have moved the goal posts.
Their original press release said something like NCL would return the SS United States back to service. Veitch was quoted as saying something like "it was going to happen". They also said she would be the next project after the three NCLA ships had entered service.
The clause about her return depending on the sucess of NCLA came later.
quote:Originally posted by Redlinekid2:Ok! I will no longer cheer up support for any more ships to be saved. I am glad to see that the SS Kungsholm and the QE2 are out of harms way. The SS Norway's sacrifice will ensure that the SS United States will NEVER suffer that same fate as its French counterpart. That is all.
You can allways support savings of old ships as long as you support the right people and mr. Goossens is absolutely the wrong one !
Kungsholm and QE2 are going to be successfull as mr. Goossens is not interfering on those
As far as I can see on pictures, the United States is not well maintained and it looks like she is rotting away.
Willem
[ 12-13-2007: Message edited by: Willem ]
quote:Originally posted by Redlinekid2:I can now say that the French Lines is now extinct as the last of the great French oceanliners will now be broken up. I should have seen this coming. .
Why the vendetta against NCL? The NORWAY was no longer a "French" ship, since CGT sold her off nearly 30 years ago, and their passenger operations indeed ended in 1974? If you boycotted every shipping company which scrapped or otherwise got rid of old tonnage, well, there certainly would not be very many lines for you to sail on.
And let's not forget one big, famous "French" liner still in service-- the QUEEN MARY 2!
Rich
quote:Originally posted by Redlinekid2:Ok! I will no longer cheer up support for any more ships to be saved. [...]
I will no longer cheer up support for any more ships to be saved. [...]
Well, the point is that bumping around like Mr. Gossens did is not supportive at all.
Have I missed something, why is Kungsholm out of harms way. The proposal to return her to Sweden is very much just that isn't it, a proposal that still has to be financed etc. ? My understanding is that it is still very much in doubt whether they will get the money and permission to do so as they have to prove that they have the means to support the project on an ongoing basis. Or perhaps I missed an annoncement somewhere.
All that said PLEASE no save the Kungholm thing. If there is someone out there with the cash etc then no doubt they will do something about it at the right time, if not then she too will retire in the way ships do, by sailing off to the scrapyard after a very long and successful life.
quote:Originally posted by mike sa:[...]Have I missed something, why is Kungsholm out of harms way. The proposal to return her to Sweden is very much just that isn't it, a proposal that still has to be financed etc. ? My understanding is that it is still very much in doubt whether they will get the money and permission to do so as they have to prove that they have the means to support the project on an ongoing basis. Or perhaps I missed an annoncement somewhere.[...]
Have I missed something, why is Kungsholm out of harms way. The proposal to return her to Sweden is very much just that isn't it, a proposal that still has to be financed etc. ? My understanding is that it is still very much in doubt whether they will get the money and permission to do so as they have to prove that they have the means to support the project on an ongoing basis. Or perhaps I missed an annoncement somewhere.[...]
I guess you missed something - see here.
I think this is more serious (time will tell) - can someone maybe translate or summarize
this article on Kungsholm? Thank you!
[ 12-13-2007: Message edited by: Ernst ]
http://www.travelserver.net/travelpage/ubb-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=004101
What prove have you that Reubens is a failed preacher ?
I do know that he is Jewish and his mother managed to avoid the Germans when they invaded Holland, where he was born, and then they came to Australia, after first living in New Zealand, when he was 13 years old.
To my knowlege he has been involved in the chartering of both Russian and Chinese cruise ships for the Australian Cruising market over many years.
I have also seen the identical words, you have posted on this website, by Desirod 6 on another shipping website.
As you know so much about Reubens lets see the prove of your statements
I have known Reubens for over 30 years !
Neil ( Bob )
He may even be a bigot as he has attempted to use the fact that Malaysia is predominantly Islamic against Star Cruises. (Never mind that the Lim family is of Chinese descent and, as far as I know, not Muslim, as most Malaysian Chinese are not.) Whether he is actually anti-Muslim or is just trying to appeal to people's basest tribal instincts is anyone's guess.
You know Rueben; maybe he is a great guy to have a drink with, or a charmer at the dinner table.
The cyberworld knows him through his website. He certainly sent the wrong message.
When one goes on a very public campaign one can unify by hate or unify by urgency.
He took the low road and the tactics of his oppressor.
quote:Originally posted by Neil Whitmore ( Bob ):Desirod 7What prove have you that Reubens is a failed preacher ?I do know that he is Jewish and his mother managed to avoid the Germans when they invaded Holland, where he was born, and then they came to Australia, after first living in New Zealand, when he was 13 years old.As you know so much about Reubens lets see the prove of your statementsI have known Reubens for over 30 years !Neil ( Bob )
IMO, the SSNorway is a lightning rod of a ship and NCL is a big easy target for a hate campaign.
Remember the US Southern Baptists tried a Disney boycott for its gay inclusiveness. Again a lightning rod and an easy target.
Who ever heard of the Montery and MSC except for ship people?
The Anastasis scrapping: are we going to boycott the Mercy ship organization?
Semester at Sea scrapped the Universe Explorer: are they now exploiters of Indian labor?
NCL is no more or less evil than any large corporation. I do agree the handling of the SSNorway from the beginning was stupid and negligent. Let the courts decide their punishment.Let the board fire Colin Veitch.
quote:Originally posted by dougnewman:I have never heard that Reuben was a preacher before, but one could certainly say that his style is a bit 'preachy'! At least from the rants on his web site, he comes off as a zealot, albeit not a religious one. He may even be a bigot as he has attempted to use the fact that Malaysia is predominantly Islamic against Star Cruises. (Never mind that the Lim family is of Chinese descent and, as far as I know, not Muslim, as most Malaysian Chinese are not.) Whether he is actually anti-Muslim or is just trying to appeal to people's basest tribal instincts is anyone's guess.
[ 12-13-2007: Message edited by: desirod7 ]
The Final Transatlantic 2001 exceptshe was sneaked right back
Bremerhaven for repairs
except she wasn't
Asbestos not removed according to EEC law when a ship is going to the breakers - but she was going for conversion according to Star/NCL
USS United States - SS Indy -
No - not one cent from my earnings will ever go their way again
Of course, NCL never said "if NCL America is successful", because it would not want to give the impression that NCL America might not be successful. Rather, it said "when" NCL America is successful - as though it were a foregone conclusion. Of course it wasn't, and NCL America has not been a success yet, and in my opinion it probably will never be. But NCL has always tacitly acknowledged that the success of NCL America was a condition for returning SSUS to service, by saying that it would not happen until then. It may not have openly brought up the possibility that it wouldn't happen, but all companies discuss their future plans as though they believe those plans will happen. No company is going to go out and say, "we hope to do this, but we really don't know, it's a total crap-shoot!" But while it never directly addressed the possibility that NCL America would fail, and that as a result the SSUS project would die, I do not believe that NCL has ever implied that SSUS would return to service if NCL America was not successful, a possibility which, of course, it was never willing to entertain.
Unfortunately, people like Reuben have so distorted NCL's statements, and even just plain made things up, that it is widely believed to have said things that in fact it never did. I will concede that NCL initially maintained that it would return NORWAY to service, and while I believe it fully intended to, I do think it was naive and premature to make such an announcement before it really could be sure this was feasible. But this is very, very different from intentionally lying to people. I do not believe NCL has ever made statements either about SSUS or about NORWAY that it did not believe to be true. If anything its mistake has been saying too much - but then, it is hardly the only company that is in the habit of announcing things that wind up not happening.
A later press release said that after the three NCL ships were introduced, the SS United States would be the next project. Not 'might be' the next, but would be next. Even a year or two later Veitch was quoted as saying words to the effect of "it will happen".
On reflection these press releases were overly optimistic. Only much later did they become less optimistic and included the get out clause "if NCLA is a success".
When NCL announced the two large newbuilds for the end of the decade and the redeployment of Pride of Hawaii to Europe, this was probably the final nails in the coffin for the SS United States.
quote:Originally posted by Ernst:I... they 'just' failed to achieve it up to now - and that's something different than lying.
I personally don't think that they were lying, I just think that they were very foolish to make such inflated claims about what they were going to do.
Of course there is still time to achieve it.
quote:Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:I personally don't think that they were lying, I just think that they were very foolish to make such inflated claims about what they were going to do. Of course there is still time to achieve it.
Exactly.
I do agree it was premature to make such anouncements but it's all PR speak. Just look at the spirited discussion generated by the inflated comments of Cunard with regard to QV being a Liner not a cruise ship that does "voyages" not cruises.
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