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» Cruise Talk   » Ocean Liners and Classic Cruise Ships   » Titanic II

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Author Topic: Titanic II
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 02-24-2013 02:08 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
A rendering of Clive Palmer's fantasy:

To comply with SOLAS regulations an extra deck will be added to the design, to accommodate enough modern lifeboats. The hull will also be a few meters wider to enhance stability.

Below is the original:

[ 02-24-2013: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
DAMBROSI2
First Class Passenger
Member # 35998

posted 02-24-2013 02:32 PM      Profile for DAMBROSI2   Email DAMBROSI2   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I like it, bring the ship on...it's more a ship than what's out there now.
Posts: 687 | From: Olney, IL, Move to FL 02/2015, Sailed SS NORWAY 3 xs. /May '99 Orig. Reg. | Registered: Aug 2010  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 02-24-2013 03:22 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
....because of the extra deck the stern shape will be modified, but will bear 'some' resemblance to the original.

The ship will have pods, but a fake rudder will protrude form the sea.

The Turkish Bath and Telegraph room will be re-created.

See document for full hull rendering: http://publ.com/mNahlZu#/10/

[ 02-25-2013: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
SSTRAVELER
First Class Passenger
Member # 15170

posted 02-24-2013 05:55 PM      Profile for SSTRAVELER     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Ok so who wants to book steerage accommodations?
Posts: 757 | From: New York | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 02-24-2013 05:59 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SSTRAVELER:
Ok so who wants to book steerage accommodations?

Palmer claims that there will be three classes!

I'm very sceptical about the whole idea and can't really believe that it will ever happen. However I'm sure that if I saw pictures of it being built, I'd want to be on-board at some time, even in steerage! However there are only so many ship-nuts in the world.

[ 02-25-2013: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
JPW
First Class Passenger
Member # 77837

posted 02-25-2013 05:11 AM      Profile for JPW        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I can see the ship possibly being built, although I cannot see how they can build it looking as authentic as the renderings show. Yes, they show modern lifeboats but I do not see any modern navigational equipment in the pictures. What will it look like with huge satellites on the deck? It will still need the internet for all us enthusiasts to blog from the ship. lol
The main problem is that I cannot see how it will be financially viable in the long term. Back in the day it was the only means of travel. People travelled in the class they could afford.
Even steerage on the Titanic ll is surely going to be a hefty price. There will be a high cost to maintain a ship like this in the long term, without any revenue raising spas or gimmicks etc etc. Yes, all us enthusiasts (not me) will be possibly willing to share a bathroom with strangers and sit in a dorm like restaurant for dinner, for one memorable journey. How will they convince anyone else to do so. Lets face it, most of us can afford a reasonable stateroom on the QM2 (with private facilities) for a transatlantic journey. I would much rather do that several times than a trip on the Titanic ll. I do not think I would be able to afford the price of first class on this ship.
Is Clive Palmer banking on the wealthy and ship enthusiasts to travel on this ship year after year?
I cannot see that happening when there will be class accommodation.
The QM2 has to have cruising to remain viable.
Is any regular cruise lover going to cruise on this ship, with no outdoor pool, no spa, and share a bathroom? I don't think so.
Is he aware of the financial troubles of the Hotel Queen Mary, Rotterdam and now the QE2? Unless he builds it with only one class ie first class, I cannot see how it will end up any different than these 3 ships.

Posts: 15 | From: Gold Coast, Australia | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 02-25-2013 07:06 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by JPW:
...without any revenue raising spas or gimmicks etc etc.

He's already talked about a Casino on the 'new' deck. He also said there will be a re-creation of the Turkish Bath (probably sellinf spa treatments?). So he's probably NOT completely mad!

However I cannot see how a steerage would work? He might be able to sell small inside cabins (deep in the hull) but they would be VERY difficult to sell them with more than two beds and no toilet!

Eating food in a big 'dorm like' dining room might be fun for one night, but you could not excluded the passengers from the 2nd and 3rd class dining rooms, could he?

[ 02-25-2013: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
joe at travelpage
Administrator
Member # 622

posted 02-25-2013 09:25 AM      Profile for joe at travelpage   Author's Homepage   Email joe at travelpage   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:

...Eating food in a big 'dorm like' dining room might be fun for one night, but you could not excluded the passengers from the 2nd and 3rd class dining rooms, could he?


Maybe he will offer a Disney-like approach where you rotate through the dining rooms/classes. Dress in a tuxedo one night and then sack cloth the next.


Posts: 29976 | From: Great Falls, Virginia | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
SSTRAVELER
First Class Passenger
Member # 15170

posted 02-25-2013 09:29 AM      Profile for SSTRAVELER     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
But do you have to bring along you own lice or will they supply them in steerage class? And what about the rats?
Posts: 757 | From: New York | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 02-25-2013 09:43 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by joe at travelpage:

...Dress in a tuxedo one night and then sack cloth the next.


Joe, I can see the cruise questions now:

"How many 'fomal' and how many 'sack cloth' evening are there on-boad the Titanic II cruise".

"Do I really need to take a sack cloth with me"

[ 02-25-2013: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
SSTRAVELER
First Class Passenger
Member # 15170

posted 02-25-2013 10:38 AM      Profile for SSTRAVELER     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Q&A:

Are your rats domesticated or do I have to bring my own pet rats along for the cruise?

Is it true the lifeboat drill will be done at 1 a.m. on a cold deck and icy water?

Do I have to know all the words to "Nearer Thy God to Me" or will you hand out the sheet music?

Th bad jokes just go on and on .....


Posts: 757 | From: New York | Registered: May 2008  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 02-25-2013 05:33 PM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Just noticed this detail:

"The lower deck cabins are said to be "typical for a modern cruise vessel" while cabins and public rooms from D deck upwards are "as in the original ship".

So maybe the steerage is not so steerage after all! Who would buy them, anyway?

[ 02-26-2013: Message edited by: Malcolm @ cruisepage ]


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
Donald Johnson
First Class Passenger
Member # 50586

posted 02-26-2013 02:36 AM      Profile for Donald Johnson   Email Donald Johnson   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
If this person who wants to build a Titanic II, then he should know all too well that the best way to do that was based on the Q3 design with all of the modern amenities on the inside.

And imagine if he had purchased the SS Oceanic and renovated her as his first ship followed by the Titanic II(Q3 Design with the White Star Line color scheme)?

In addition, why would he want his fake Titanic to be built in China instead of Italy or France that have excellent ship building facilities? I think that the ship in question is not going to get built at all as there were other schemes before this one over 15 years ago.


Posts: 100 | From: Florida | Registered: Mar 2011  |  IP: Logged
Frosty 4
First Class Passenger
Member # 5826

posted 02-26-2013 10:17 AM      Profile for Frosty 4   Email Frosty 4   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
It's 2013. Let's get off this OLD ship kick and move forward. If it's built in China will it be a "JUNK"?
LOL.
F4

Posts: 2531 | From: Illinois | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
BMWM5
First Class Passenger
Member # 60947

posted 02-27-2013 03:09 AM      Profile for BMWM5        Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Clive Palmer's a billionaire. He's entitled to spend the money he's earned anyway he sees fit. I believe the Titanic II would make an excellent tourist attraction ins say Universal Studios or Knots Berry Farm which could sustain itself. As a 3 class cruise ship, I don't think so. I'd rather see him spend his hard earned cash on finding a home for the SS United States and refurbishing her. I think it's better money spent.
Posts: 50 | From: Connecticut | Registered: Jun 2011  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 02-27-2013 06:41 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by BMWM5:
[QB]Clive Palmer's a billionaire. /QB]

Micky Arison’s comment on the project was: “Clive Palmer is a billionaire with aspirations of becoming a millionaire”.


Posts: 19210 | From: Essex (Just Outside London) | Registered: A Long Time Ago!  |  IP: Logged
desirod7
First Class Passenger
Member # 1626

posted 02-27-2013 08:11 AM      Profile for desirod7     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Titanic undertakings: Can classic ocean liners make a comeback?

This handout provided by Blue Star Line shows a computer-generated image of Australian mining tycoon Clive Palmer's plans for a "Titanic II" near-replica cruise ship.
Just over a century after the Titanic sank to the bottom of the North Atlantic, an Australian billionaire has officially floated plans to build a successor.

On Tuesday, Clive Palmer, chairman of Brisbane-based Blue Star Line, revealed blueprints for Titanic II, a “full-scale re-creation” of the illustrious, if ill-fated, ship at a press conference on the Intrepid Air, Sea & Space Museum in New York.

Set to sail in 2016, the ship is one of several — the QE2 and SS United States are among the others — that seek, in one or way or another, to recapture the glory days of the great ocean liners and ensure that their legends live on.

First up: Titanic, or more precisely, Titanic II, a modern-day version of the ship that sank on its maiden voyage in April 1912. During today’s press conference, Palmer referred to the original as a “ship of dreams” and its successor as a ship “where dreams come true.”

As envisioned, that dream entails building an 883-foot-long, 55,800-ton vessel with space for 2,435 passengers. That’s small by today’s standards — the Queen Mary 2 measures 151,000 tons; the Oasis of the Seas, 220,000 tons — but big enough to offer a casino, gymnasium and other features reminiscent of the original.

In other nods to the past, passengers will wear period clothing from 1912 and be able to book passage in first, second or third class.

"It will be 98% the same," Palmer told the BBC last year. Presumably, the other 2% will apply to the welded (not riveted) hull, the modern propulsion system and the addition of enough lifeboats to preclude problems with things that go bump in the night at sea.

While Palmer declined to discuss the cost of the ship, other ocean liner aficionados have expressed doubts about the viability of the project ever since the idea was first floated last year.

“It’s like a Disneyland representation of the Titanic,” said maritime historian Peter Knego. “You can’t build with wood anymore, you can’t rivet, you can’t do all the things that made the Titanic what she was.”

Nor, says Knego, can you ignore the fact that the vast majority of today’s cruisers prefer ships with waterparks, climbing walls and other resort-style amenities. By comparison, interest in transatlantic crossings, like the ones Titanic II is expected to begin making in 2016, went into sharp decline the moment Pan Am and BOAC began flying jets across the pond in 1958.

“There’s probably a couple thousand people in the world who’d be fascinated by a transatlantic crossing on a replica of the Titanic,” Knego told NBC News. “It would also have to compete against the Queen Mary 2 and there are times that the QM2 isn’t even full.”

Original ships, alternative uses
While Titanic II seeks to turn back the clock to the glory days of the ocean-liner era, proof that time doesn’t stand still sits, rusting and peeling, at a dock in Philadelphia. Originally launched in 1952, the SS United States was as famous in its day as the Titanic was 40 years earlier but without the morbid associations.

“It’s the most famous ship that didn’t sink,” said Susan Gibbs, executive director of the SS United States Conservancy, which seeks to preserve the vessel. “It’s still with us and is by many accounts one of the most storied U.S. liners ever built.”


Courtesy of Bill DiBenedetto & the SS United States Conservancy

Launched in 1952, the SS United States quickly became "America's flagship," a sleek and speedy vessel that, alas, still couldn't unrun the dawn of the jet age.
That story, much condensed, goes like this: Entering transatlantic service in 1952, the ship immediately became the unofficial flagship of the U.S. fleet, recognizable for its knife-like bow and red, white and blue funnels. She broke the transatlantic speed record on her maiden voyage and holds the westbound record for fastest passenger service to this day.

“When she was built, she represented the country,” said Knego. “People were aware of her like they’re aware of the space shuttle now.”

Alas, the subsequent rise of transatlantic jet service essentially killed the market for transatlantic sailings and the ship was taken out of service in 1969. Since then, it’s had several owners, been stripped of its fittings and avoided several dates with the scrapyard.

Since 1996, the ship has sat at the dock in Philadelphia, its hull streaked with rust and its red, white and blue funnels faded to shades of pink and gray. The good news is that the ship is structurally sound and asbestos-free; the bad news is that carrying costs (maintenance, insurance, etc.) average $75,000 per month.

“That’s a heavy lift and one that can’t be borne indefinitely,” said Gibbs, who, it turns out, is the granddaughter of the ship’s designer, William Francis Gibbs. Scrapping the ship remains a threat, “but everyone involved will work their hearts out to avoid that fate,” she told NBC News.

Those efforts include a grassroots campaign called SaveTheUnitedStates.org and and plans to turn the ship into a waterfront attraction with hotels, retail outlets and a museum dedicated to the ship, 20th century design and the American ingenuity that underscored it.

According to Gibbs, discussions have been undertaken with several municipalities that might host the ship with New York being the most likely venue: “It was the ship’s homeport during its service career; it attracts a lot of tourists, and it’s a bustling city with high hotel occupancy rates.”

The effort would not come cheap but it’s also not without precedent. The first Queen Mary has been a dockside hotel/tourist attraction in Long Beach, Calif., since the early 1970s, although, it, too, has faced a series of financial setbacks.

More recently, the Queen Elizabeth 2, or QE2, which has been sitting idle in Dubai since 2008, was sold to Oceanic Group, a Singaporean company that plans to turn it into a hotel/attraction in an as-yet-unnamed Asian city.

Given the above, it’s clear that these grand old ships have incredible appeal just as there’s no denying that their futures are marked by ocean-liner-sized question marks. For Clive Palmer, it’s about recapturing the essence of one iconic vessel; for Susan Gibbs, it’s about ensuring that the essence of another isn’t lost forever.

For his part, Peter Knego has his own wish: “For people who appreciate classic skyscrapers and old movie theaters, scrapping the United States would be like demolishing the Empire State Building,” he told NBC News. “ If only (Palmer) would invest in the ship instead of recreating one that never completed its maiden voyage ...”

Rob Lovitt is a longtime travel writer


Posts: 5727 | From: Philadelphia, Pa [home of the SS United States] | Registered: Oct 2000  |  IP: Logged
Malcolm @ cruisepage
Cruise Director
Member # 301

posted 02-28-2013 06:11 AM      Profile for Malcolm @ cruisepage     Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
Of course the SS United States is an extremely important ship in terms of maritime history;

however Joe public is never going to be interested, even if they have heard of it, which is unlikely.
In contrast, the Titanic is the most famous ship ever, due to the movies etc.

To be honest if I had money to invest and wanted a ‘return’ on my investment, I would probably regard ‘Titanic II’ as the less risky venture, than a renovated (returned to service) SS United States.

Mind you, neither projects sound like a guaranteed success story to me. A better investment would be a newbuild.


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Donald Johnson
First Class Passenger
Member # 50586

posted 03-01-2013 06:33 AM      Profile for Donald Johnson   Email Donald Johnson   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Malcolm @ cruisepage:
Of course the SS United States is an extremely important ship in terms of maritime history;

however Joe public is never going to be interested, even if they have heard of it, which is unlikely.
In contrast, the Titanic is the most famous ship ever, due to the movies etc.

To be honest if I had money to invest and wanted a ‘return’ on my investment, I would probably regard ‘Titanic II’ as the less risky venture, than a renovated (returned to service) SS United States.

Mind you, neither projects sound like a guaranteed success story to me. A better investment would be a newbuild.


Hi Malcolm,
The only other ship that could rival the Titanic II is the SS Normandie II.


Posts: 100 | From: Florida | Registered: Mar 2011  |  IP: Logged
claudio
First Class Passenger
Member # 1214

posted 03-02-2013 12:50 AM      Profile for claudio   Email claudio   Send New Private Message      Edit/Delete Post  Reply With Quote 
I MIGHT ADD THE CHINESE SHIPYARD HAS YET TO SIGN A CONTRACT AND THEY HAVE NEVER BUILT A CRUISE SHIP BEFOR HAVING SAID THAT CLIVE PALMER IS A BILLIONARE AND CAN FUND THIS SHIP WITH HIS OWN MONEY WHO KNOWS MAYBE HE WILL I FOR ONE WOULD NEVER GO ON A SHIP CALLED TITANIC IM SUPERSTISIOUS
Posts: 468 | From: melbourne australia | Registered: Apr 2000  |  IP: Logged

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